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Sooo

If you delete patreon,
as a hashtag on twitter seems to suggest,
how will this affect the people you are currently patronizing?
If everyone who reads your hashtag does the same… how will THAT affect them?

Do they have ko-fi? Paypal subscriptions? Is Dwolla still around?

I mean, you COULD mail them cash monthly, but the USPS at least does not rec that and stamp prices are going up.

@aldersprig i'm having a split reaction between "what are people mis-characterizing now" (after the Dec '17 debacle) and "did they actually do something this time, this is why infrastructure chokepoints make me nervous"

@snipejaeg Well, I don’t remember Dec ‘17 being a mischaracterization, just a backpedal, but I might be missing something.

It appears that someone said something on Twitter and Patreon banned them for saying nasty shit.

@aldersprig assuming it's in reaction to this post patreonhq.com/hate-speech-on-p it sounds like they're in the right, at least as far as who's punching which direction

(the Dec '17 thing was badly communicated/rolled out by Patreon, but i also saw reactions that implied/claimed all the money that had gone to CC processing fees would now be going to Patreon's profit margin, which seemed like deliberate bad faith to me)

@aldersprig re-reading my toot, realizing the pronouns have unclear antecedents - it sounds like Patreon* is in the right, as far as banning a jerk who was punching down

@aldersprig And SubscribeStar just got booted off their payment processors, Libreapay is nice but doesn't let you know who is paying you, and Drip is still in beta ? (I can't tell from the website).

I have a secondary funding option through Snipcart on my website but only one person (a coworker) has ever considered doing that.

Plus, there are few frameworks for managing said users if you spread out across sources.

@dmoonfire I know Patreon has a lot of problems but I’ve definitely gotten a more settled regular income from P than ever before.

And yeah, I CAN do it on Wordpress sort of, but what a pain in the toukas.

@aldersprig The other drawback is a WP setup isn't as trusted as P (or Snipcart, Square, Swipe). It is that branding that sells a lot of thing, plus "one account to rule them all" when it comes to helping encouraging others to start helping.

Plus, in theory, if you combine P donations into one, there is less processing fee because it becomes a larger one instead of lots and lots of smaller ones.

@aldersprig I'll admit, having the extra layer of abstraction of Patreon also helps with erotica since that is so frequently kicked off funding networks just for being uncomfortable.

@dmoonfire

> Plus, in theory, if you combine P donations into one, there is less processing fee because it becomes a larger one instead of lots and lots of smaller ones.

Wasn't the 2017 debacle partly because they stopped doing that?

@aldersprig

@frankiesaxx @aldersprig Yeah, but they backed off with the outrage. I lost half of my (relatively few) patrons because of that announcement. I haven't gotten a new patron since.

And I was so close to hitting double digits. :P

Since then, I've seriously considered getting rid of P and everything else. It doesn't seem to be working for me.

@dmoonfire

that was when I mostly quit using it for everybody but this last one; like the writing was on the wall - fortunately everybody but this one had a paypal option too

I can't bring myself to care they kicked some MRA off their platform, but I do think it highlights that communities hosted on Patreon are controlled by Patreon and that should give independent creators pause, and it's not just that allowed content policies can change but ANY hosting policies

@aldersprig

@dmoonfire @frankiesaxx Yeah, I lost a bunch of patrons too to that, which is why this is making me twitchy.

One of them donated a year via paypal.

@aldersprig @dmoonfire That's what I do, and one podcast I listen to has a paypal subscription set up so it will bill automatically, which is nice because the main thing about Patreon is the "don't have to do it as a lump sum/don't have to remember to pay this" convenience.

@frankiesaxx @dmoonfire see, there’s still a level of paperwork for the creator that way, which is why I really liked Patreon orginally.

@aldersprig @dmoonfire fair enough - and like I said about Amazon, I don't blame creators for using it - people have to balance their time and energy and if Patreon gives them more income and convenience, then maybe the trade is worth it

I'm curious about using it to run fan communities though, does it give you the tools to bounce the community to your own controlled sites (like a blog or forum or mailig list) or does it really try and lock you into Patreon's platform?

@frankiesaxx @dmoonfire There’s an option to post on Wordpress but Patreon-locked. I haven’t tried it yet, tbh.

@aldersprig @dmoonfire now i want to make one so i can see how restrictive it really is

damn my curiosity

@frankiesaxx @aldersprig I want something that coordinates between various membership services so I don't have to pick "just one". I'm uncomfortable with everything in a single basket plus I like being able to sell patronage at conventions (about 10% of my patrons over the years).

@dmoonfire @frankiesaxx I want something that
handles expirations for me and tier levels.
can handle different nations and currencies
doesn’t charge half my arm and a leg.

@aldersprig @frankiesaxx Exactly, plus something that lets a user have a custom username/password to access content that automatically shifts their tiers.

I suspect I'm going to have to write something. Just... too many projects at the moment so it has to wait.

@aldersprig @dmoonfire

same reason so many independent writers let Amazon lock them into the Kindle ecosystem

@frankiesaxx @aldersprig As a publisher, I give the authors a choice of KU verses spreading out to multiple networks. In the last few years, every single one of them has insisted on KU only because it gives them the most money.

I'm the only outlier at this point.

@dmoonfire @aldersprig

exactly. and I don't blame them for making the choice that's best for them, I would probably make the same choice, but as a consumer it's a shitty situation

@frankiesaxx Amazon is not our friend. They never will be and they have no interest in helping individual authors, just making as much money as possible.

However, most people around me don't see it that way.

@dmoonfire

💯

you see it every time Amazon makes an arbitrary change too; everyone using the platform scrambles to adjust and bitches to high hell about it, but they won't leave because it's still *more money than they make anywhere else* and Amazon knows it.

one of the reasons most of the mainstream SFF we read is from Angry Robot we can get DRM-free direct from their own website, and besides good books, publishers who do that are worth supporting

@dmoonfire @aldersprig a podcast network i back was using Stripe until recently; as a user that was a good solution for me. Not sure how easy/complicated it is on the backend, compared to others, tho.

@aldersprig
Obviously we all just need to switch to D O G E C O I N.

@aldersprig creators would have to be responsible for setting up another community portal and payment processing, yes.

personally, I REALLY dislike Patreon's model of centralizing their control of creator's communities and have already gotten rid of all my subscriptions in 2018 but one (which I was waiting until after the holidays to kill and will cancel this the month)

I'd rather support creators or projects via paypal even, direct or by subscription, or through buying merch or something

@aldersprig but people get to feel good about themselves AND save money!

@Robby But… that money they’re saving is money I’m not getting, as a creator. *sadface*

@aldersprig I know, I feel for people caught in these situations, when people take self-righteous actions without considering who they are going to hurt.

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